## #129 Marc Andreessen — Interview With an Icon ### #129 Marc Andreessen — Interview With an Icon  #### Metadata * Author: [[The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish]] * Full Title: #129 Marc Andreessen — Interview With an Icon * Category: #podcasts #### Highlights * The Social Reaction to New Technology Transcript: Speaker 2 Can you talk to me a little bit about those patterns? What what comes to mind when you think of an example that your you're surprised by? Speaker 1 I mean, you take almost anything, but, i mean, 'll just give you the most basec uence, the most basic one is, is socital reaction to new technology, right? And so there are, you know, there are these new technologies of our era, and could go, you mk, you know, whatevert wewant um, you know, youknow, erything, from uno, social media, internet to, you now, m many other things about omationan robots and so forth. And then there's, you know, this sort of the society reaction. There's sort of, the, you know, the reaction in the press. There's the reaction for politicians. Ah, you know, there e reaction from different political movements, you know, political candidates, right? O, now, you knonw taking, you know, kind of major stands on these things. Ah, you know, both in the us. And around the world. You hear it a lot, like, around the kit, like what els you does to kits asort of the go to thing, which the teno, you know, sort of this technology is going to ruin the new generation of kids. And then you just kind of, you know, ask yourself, well, is this, is this the first generation of technology for which they have made those claims, rightor, in fact, have those claims been made for basically prior generations of technologyand then, of course, the next question is, like, ok, w wete, the claims different in the past? Were they actually the same claims, right? And then to the extent that they were the same claims, you could ask like, ok, they playing out differently this time? Ah, and are they playing out differently this timeand there's thes aso, quite rich literature, both in the history of technology and on the sociology of technology. You know, prior generations of sociologists who i think were actually more more kind of interesting thin the current generation. Ah, you know how she grappled with these questions a lot, right? Um, and um. I mean, even like mark's itself is like, you know, heavily based on the impact of technology and society, or at least on mark's theories on an um. And i found this just, like, fantastic book that i just really highly recommend as a great example. Thisa, it's a book written by m i t, professor, 50 years a, just of the 50 year issue of the book. So it's a book, a, it's very, i can state very confidently as a book written before the internet, before any of the things people, you know, people are mad about to day. Ri. And it's this great book with this great kind of ouno title from no kind o 19 fifties, than t early 19 sixties, called tas, called men machines in modernity. I'll have to ave to look it up, but it's elting morrison is the, is the title bis thints, men machines in modernity, you know, bu, but it is, it's, is basic. It's a short, little book, and it goes through, basicallyit goes through this history of like, ho, new technologis are sort of received. Ah, mean, society andtit it pt just briefly, it proposes this basic thou three step process, ah, and sort of a, you know, step one is basically just like, flat out ignore riht. New technologies are just dismissed. All all the experts and all the people who are kind of in power, you know, just ging tosayi this thing is knocking a matter. I snockinen nocking to be a thing. Step two is rational counter argument it, which is, sort of, the status quo assembles all the different arguments as to why this thing can't possibly work and won't possibly be important. But, like, they really get into the argument. Nd, step two, and they rellyly try to try to reason it through a, and then he says, step three is, he says, step three is when the name calling begins, which is to say, step three is when the sta quo basically goes bananas m and gets like, super emotional and super irate, and n n cuning goes on tilt, rightndand in stars, name calling starts accusing the sort of proponents o the new technology of sort of all these evil, conmoral crimes. D basically. The reason he says it goes through this three step process is because he says, what what people think of as techno, technological change, is actually societa change, and specifically societal change of the form of reordering power and statu structure, right? And so all of the people who have achieved positions of power and authority in the world based on prior generations of technology are inherently threatened by new technology, because new technology will upend the power in statu structures, and then a new set of people will yo come to the foregroundn take the powerand in of course, you know, in human society, power and status battles are the cor battles like that. You know, there they are, the most vicious fights. And so basi, what happens is, a lot technologists kind of start out by assuming that they've built a better moustrap. And of course, like and how people should appreciate them for it. N then they find out that everybody hates them for it. And beusly, that's the reason why, and that this is a persistent pattern through history. But this is, in fact, not new. ([Time 0:06:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e31a8078-3270-469b-9784-412471b21786)) # #129 Marc Andreessen — Interview With an Icon  ## Metadata - Author: [[The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish]] - Full Title: #129 Marc Andreessen — Interview With an Icon - Category: #podcasts ## Highlights - The Social Reaction to New Technology Summary: Elting morrison looks at the patterns in society's reaction to new technology. He says there is a three-step process that takes place before, during and after technological change. The first two steps are dismissive of claims made by those who oppose it; step three is when people start calling each other out for their wrongs. Elting Morrison: New technologies should be seen as good or bad depending on how you look at them. Transcript: Speaker 2 Can you talk to me a little bit about those patterns? What what comes to mind when you think of an example that your you're surprised by? Speaker 1 I mean, you take almost anything, but, i mean, 'll just give you the most basec uence, the most basic one is, is socital reaction to new technology, right? And so there are, you know, there are these new technologies of our era, and could go, you mk, you know, whatevert wewant um, you know, youknow, erything, from uno, social media, internet to, you now, m many other things about omationan robots and so forth. And then there's, you know, this sort of the society reaction. There's sort of, the, you know, the reaction in the press. There's the reaction for politicians. Ah, you kno, there e reaction from diferent political movements, you know, political candidates, right? O, now, you knonw taking, you know, kind of major stands on these things. Ah, you know, both in the us. And around the world. You hear it a lot, like, around the kit, like what els you does to kits asort of the go to thing, which the teno, you know, sort of this technology is going to ruin the new generation of kids. And then you just kind of, you know, ask yourself, well, is this, is this the first generation of technology for which they have made those claims, rightor, in fact, have those claims been made for basically prior generations of technologyand then, of course, the next question is, like, ok, w wete, the claims different in the past? Were they actually the same claims, right? And then to the extent that they were the same claims, you could ask like, ok, they playing out differently this time? Ah, and are they playing out differently this timeand there's thes aso, quite rich literature, both in the history of technology and on the sociology of technology. You know, prior generations of sociologists who i think were actually more more kind of interesting thin the current generation. Ah, you know how she grappled with these questions a lot, right? Um, and um. I mean, even like mark's itself is like, you know, heavily based on the impact of technology and society, or at least on mark's theories on an um. And i found this just, like, fantastic book that i just really highly recommend as a great example. Thisa, it's a book written by m i t, professor, 50 years a, just of the 50 year issue of the book. So it's a book, a, it's very, i can state very confidently as a book written before the internet, before any of the things people, you know, people are mad about to day. Ri. And it's this great book with this great kind of ouno title from no kind o 19 fifties, than t early 19 sixties, called tas, called men machines in modernity. I'll have to ave to look it up, but it's elting morrison is the, is the title bis thints, men machines in modernity, you know, bu, but it is, it's, is basic. It's a short, little book, and it goes through, basicallyit goes through this history of like, ho, new technologis are sort of received. Ah, mean, society andtit it pt just briefly, it proposes this basic thou three step process, ah, and sort of a, you know, step one is basically just like, flat out ignore riht. New technologies are jus dismissed. All all the experts and all the people who are kind of in power, you know, just ging tosayi this thing is knocking a matter. I snockinen nocking to be a thing. Step two is rational counter argument it, which is, sort of, the status quo assembles all the different arguments as to why this thing can't possibly work and won't possibly be important. But, like, they really get into the argument. Nd, step two, and they rellyly try to try to reason it through a, and then he says, step three is, he says, step three is when the name calling begins, which is to say, step three is when the sta quo basically goes bananas m and gets like, super emotional and super irate, and n n cuning goes on tilt, rightndand in stars, name calling starts accusing the sort of proponents o the new technology of sort of all these evil, conmoral crimes. D basicly. The reason he says it goes through this three step process is because he says, what what people think of as techno, technological change, is actually societa change, and specifically societal change of the form of reordering power and statu structure, right? And so all of the people who have achieved positions of power and authority in the world based on prior generations of technology are inherently threatened by new technology, because new technology will upend the power in statu structures, and then a new set of people will yo come to the foregroundn take the powerand in of course, you know, in human society, power and status battles are the cor battles like that. You know, there they are, the most vicious fights. And so basi, what happens is, a lot technologists kind of start out by assuming that they've built a better moustrap. And of course, like and how people shuld appreciate them for it. N then they find out that everybody hates them for it. And beusly, that's the reason why, and that this is a persistent pattern through history. But this is, in fact, not new. ([Time 0:06:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e31a8078-3270-469b-9784-412471b21786))